Comments on: Neither Lord, Liar or Lunatic http://www.framingbusiness.net/archives/72 Writings of Gavin C. Schmitt Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:28:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Rhapture http://www.framingbusiness.net/archives/72/comment-page-1#comment-380916 Rhapture Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:28:07 +0000 http://framingbusin.setupmyblog.com/2006/neither-lord-liar-or-lunatic/#comment-380916 Interesting article and one certainly worth serious consideration. As Taylor Cordoza stated, C.S. Lewis’ argument has aided me in my faith but is not the sole reasoning for it. You made the statement, “In fact, such a clear and concise statement as “I am the only begotten son of the Father” is never stated.” What Jesus DID say to the Jewish elite is found in John 8:58-59: *58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.* That term “I Am” is also found in Exodus 3:14 which translate as “YHWH”, the Hebrew letters ascribed as God’s holy name. Jesus went beyond saying that He was on the same team as God or that he had the same goal. He didn’t even put that on the table as an option. He stated without question that He IS God. He said that He is greater than Abraham or anyone else, past, present or future. His audience knew EXACTLY what He meant when He said this and that’s the reason they wanted to stone Him to death. Regarding only second hand stories being available for the life of Christ, keep certain factors in mind. Matthew and John were in the group of the original 12 disciples. All of their information was first hand eyewitness accounts. Mark, received his information from an eyewitness, the apostle Peter. Luke, a man of science and a gentile, was extremely thorough in his research. And regarding your analogy of watching George W. Bush leap buildings, would I believe you? Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the level of integrity that you have with me. But I would challenge you, if someone were to hold a gun to your head and tell you to swear that this story was true, would you? Would you give your life for a lie? The early church disciples did martyr themselves for this news that a Jewish carpenter rose from the dead. Pagan soldiers and his enemies could not explain the empty tomb or the neatly arranged grave clothes in the tomb. Though not an authority by any means, I don’t see how anyone would lay their life down for something that they believed was not true. Thank you for the article. It truly was well written, respectful and made me do some introspection that I’ve needed to do. Interesting article and one certainly worth serious consideration. As Taylor Cordoza stated, C.S. Lewis’ argument has aided me in my faith but is not the sole reasoning for it.

You made the statement, “In fact, such a clear and concise statement as “I am the only begotten son of the Father” is never stated.”

What Jesus DID say to the Jewish elite is found in John 8:58-59:

*58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.*

That term “I Am” is also found in Exodus 3:14 which translate as “YHWH”, the Hebrew letters ascribed as God’s holy name. Jesus went beyond saying that He was on the same team as God or that he had the same goal. He didn’t even put that on the table as an option. He stated without question that He IS God. He said that He is greater than Abraham or anyone else, past, present or future. His audience knew EXACTLY what He meant when He said this and that’s the reason they wanted to stone Him to death.

Regarding only second hand stories being available for the life of Christ, keep certain factors in mind. Matthew and John were in the group of the original 12 disciples. All of their information was first hand eyewitness accounts. Mark, received his information from an eyewitness, the apostle Peter. Luke, a man of science and a gentile, was extremely thorough in his research.

And regarding your analogy of watching George W. Bush leap buildings, would I believe you? Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the level of integrity that you have with me. But I would challenge you, if someone were to hold a gun to your head and tell you to swear that this story was true, would you? Would you give your life for a lie?

The early church disciples did martyr themselves for this news that a Jewish carpenter rose from the dead. Pagan soldiers and his enemies could not explain the empty tomb or the neatly arranged grave clothes in the tomb. Though not an authority by any means, I don’t see how anyone would lay their life down for something that they believed was not true.

Thank you for the article. It truly was well written, respectful and made me do some introspection that I’ve needed to do.

]]> By: Taylor Cardoza http://www.framingbusiness.net/archives/72/comment-page-1#comment-108024 Taylor Cardoza Thu, 10 Mar 2011 23:47:05 +0000 http://framingbusin.setupmyblog.com/2006/neither-lord-liar-or-lunatic/#comment-108024 Jesus... Son of God, I think so. While my faith is not entirely based on this argument, it has strengthened my belief. When you said that story about President Bush, it made perfect sense, until I read the logic behind it. Even though we did not witness Jesus first hand, there are several documents and different sources saying his exact statement of claiming to be Son of God (God). We also have hundreds of letters from those who were upset by what happened to Jesus. Also the twelve who were closest to him had their scribes writing exactly what Jesus said, and from that we can see that he was claiming to be God in subtle ways, such as quoting scripture, mimicking Moses, and confessing to it in front of Pontious Pilate and Herod. We have these legal documents that give the exact statements of what Jesus said before his conviction (claiming to be God) the whole reason that he was crucified. Saying that Jesus was not claiming to be God, is not even an option after all the information we have about him. Jesus… Son of God, I think so. While my faith is not entirely based on this argument, it has strengthened my belief. When you said that story about President Bush, it made perfect sense, until I read the logic behind it. Even though we did not witness Jesus first hand, there are several documents and different sources saying his exact statement of claiming to be Son of God (God). We also have hundreds of letters from those who were upset by what happened to Jesus. Also the twelve who were closest to him had their scribes writing exactly what Jesus said, and from that we can see that he was claiming to be God in subtle ways, such as quoting scripture, mimicking Moses, and confessing to it in front of Pontious Pilate and Herod. We have these legal documents that give the exact statements of what Jesus said before his conviction (claiming to be God) the whole reason that he was crucified. Saying that Jesus was not claiming to be God, is not even an option after all the information we have about him.

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